At this year's Women In Music Awards, we celebrated the achievements of 13 game-changing executives and artists as the industry came together to honour their work. Music Week has spoken to all 13 winners to tell their stories.
Interview: Miranda Bardsley
Catherine Marks is a force of nature, one of the music industry’s most highly-regarded producers, and this year’s winner of the Music Week Women In Music Awards Music Creative honour.
With a career that has so far spanned over 20 years, Marks has been renowned for her work in the studio as a producer and mixer, as well as a campaigner, advocating for better recognition of female producers.
"There are a lot more of us than people seem to think!" she stated, in an interview with Music Week earlier this year.
Marks is the mastermind behind records from star acts including Wolf Alice, Boygenius, Alanis Morissette, Frank Carter & The Rattlesnakes, The Big Moon, The Amazons and many others. This year, she earned she her first Grammy for her work on Boygenius’ debut album The Record.
Born and raised in Melbourne, Marks began her music industry journey when she met producer Flood (U2, Depeche Mode, Smashing Pumpkins, Nine Inch Nails, The Killers) in Dublin while she was studying architecture in Australia. Upon finishing her studies, she moved to London where she began to work for Flood and his collaborator Alan Moulder, setting her on a path to become the creative force behind multiple smash hits in the indie-rock scene and beyond.
“Moving to the UK to assist Flood felt like something I just needed to get out of my system at the time, because I assumed I’d just go back to Australia and carry on being an architect,” Marks says, smiling as she looks back on her early days in the business. “But that was 20 years ago and I still haven’t got it out of my system!”
Here, we sit down with Marks to reflect on her incredible journey so far…
Congratulations on winning this year’s Music Creative Award, has the news sunk in yet?
“It’s so interesting because it’s different to winning an award for a particular project. In a way, it means more to me because it’s recognising my whole career and experience, and it makes the sacrifices more worthwhile. Also, to be recognised amongst other women, there’s something that feels so special about that, it means a lot. I won one of the inaugural Resonator Awards just before the Grammys this year which was also about celebrating women, but more on the technical side of things – songwriters, producers – and that was similar because it’s recognised by your peers, there’s no sense of tokenism in being a female producer, so it felt really real and important, as does this one. I feel really deserving and honoured, because I know how much I’ve put into my career and how hard I’ve worked over the years. This feels like a culmination of all of that.”
When you spoke to Music Week earlier this year, you said that you were frustrated with how women’s achievements are often politicised rather than celebrated. What can the business be doing more of to shift the focus onto inspiring women instead of tokenising those in more senior roles?
“That’s the issue, I feel like the women who already exist in the industry and have been working hard for a long time, they haven't been celebrated enough, there was always a lack of that. If you don’t educate everyone in the industry that there are incredible women working in it, then young people don’t know about them, and you can’t be what you can’t see. I felt that, while it is so important to carry on the conversation about why there has been a barrier for women who want to enter into this side of the industry, acknowledging those who have had success in their career – of which there are so many globally – is needed. When I first started, there were women who had been there before me, but there weren’t any I knew of. As time went on, there were more entering the industry, but it takes time to build a profile, so of course people were still not aware of them. Now, however, there are women who do have a profile and are making significant gains, so if we celebrate them – whilst talking about the work that can be done to bring in the younger generations – that will help. It’s so important that the decision makers, the managers and the record labels are aware of those producers, songwriters, creatives who are available. But the culture is definitely shifting, which is great.”
Catherine Marks received her award from Wolf Alice's Ellie Rowsell (right)
Do you think there are enough resources in place to support young female producers coming up nowadays?
“I hope so, I think we’re living through a shift. But again, it’s about showing the representation and, ultimately, in order to have a career you need to have access to particular projects. Especially for myself, I’m not an artist, record labels, managers and artists come to me to make records, and that’s because they’re aware of me, so it’s all about making people aware of all the others who are around. It’s also about how you access that situation. It’s an ongoing thing, but having award shows like this are really important because it’s a celebration of how far we’ve come and what we’ve achieved, and also just a lovely experience to be in a room of all these incredible women.”
You’ve previously spoken about how, when you were coming up in the industry, you didn’t want to step on people’s toes or seem overconfident. How did you establish a more confident voice in your work?
“I wonder if it was a combination of a lot of things – one being that I was very inexperienced in the industry and, coming from an architecture background to making tea in studios, I thought that I had to be invisible to be able to learn. Then, as my experience grew, as did the industry, there was this natural shift where I started to feel really confident in what I was doing and what I could deliver. I remember someone telling me to always be myself, and for a long time I felt like I could only show a little part of myself, but because I live in the studio, it’s a hard thing to put on an act, and in the end I did just have to be me! I work with people now who I love and are inspiring, which allows me a real sense of personal freedom.”
You had your first taste of the music industry in Dublin when you met Flood whilst you were studying architecture. Did you have any inkling that would set you on the road to your own music career?
“I have really fond memories about that year but it was also so tough. I was young, 21, living away from home for the first time, exposed to so many interesting, new and wonderful things. At that age, I probably didn’t have as much shame as I do now, so I was shamelessly trying to include myself in a lot of different creative situations, asking for opportunities! [Laughs]. The kind of people, including Flood, that I was hanging out with was mad, but I didn’t really know the significance of them at that time, and I didn’t even know what production was or what area of music I’d want to work in, I just knew that it was my passion and something I wanted to be involved in. Even when I did 'enter' into the industry, what I assumed would be the ‘end result’ seemed so far away, so it was just grinding everyday, not knowing where it would end up. But deciding to go to Dublin that first time was just one of those sliding doors moments; if I hadn’t have done it I wouldn’t be where I am today.”
If you don’t educate everyone in the industry that there are incredible women working in it, then young people don’t know about them, and you can’t be what you can’t see
Catherine Marks
What is the key piece of advice you would give to younger creatives entering the industry now? Is there anything you wish you’d known when you started out?
“This industry, as I imagine a lot of industries are, is a trust-based one in that even if your role is just making tea, it’s so important that you get that right and put as much passion into it as you would if you were a producer. It’s also such a unique environment, often you’re working long hours in a small room with a core team. Thankfully, there is a lot more mental and physical health support and awareness of peoples’ lifestyles now, but even so, your role is always significant and you often can't 'call in sick'. This business is small and it is about building a reputation. That's something I didn’t know that when I started out, I was just like, ‘Goddamnit, I’m making tea!’ or ‘I’m just hoovering!’ But those things are important, and people pay attention.”
Talking of mental health, do you think there is enough support for wellbeing these days?
“It’s not like there’s been a specific campaign, but especially during the pandemic, people started to check in with each other more. As a producer, you’re in a role which takes on the responsiblity of someone’s hopes and dreams in your hands – it is a huge weight to carry. There is definitely more that can be done to support creatives, but I also know that with the people I tend to work with across the board, we do have those kinds of conversations. Sometimes it’s like, ‘I’m feeling really anxious today,’ or ‘I’m in a bit of a black hole.’ It’s also very common that after a big project, people tend to crash, and we need time to recharge, and the more we talk about that, the more people are aware of it, and the more people can be understanding.”
You have worked on records by Boygenius, Wolf Alice, Alanis Morissette, The Big Moon, and many more. What have been some of your proudest moments of your career so far?
“There are so many. But I think it’s significant that Ellie from Wolf Alice presented my award because the success we had with the band and that EP [2014's Creature Songs] really began my career, and my relationship with Dirty Hit. Then there’s Boygenius, this year winning three Grammys, and I won a Grammy myself, those are on-the-surface achievements, but it’s more the kind of learning curve I’ve experienced through it all. I'm so fortunate to choose the people I work with so that everyday it’s as enjoyable as it can be, I just love being in the studio.”
Have you ever felt that you’ve been pigeonholed within a specific genre or sound?
“I don’t know! I know that I’ve worked with people who say they can really recognise my sound, but for me every project is new, so I’m always adapting and reacting to the music of a particular artist and what they want to achieve. If there’s a part of me that creeps in, that’s going to be inevitable because I throw myself into what I’m doing, it becomes my life – I eat, sleep and breathe the project. To be honest, I fell into guitar music, really. I loved pop music and that was something I thought I wanted to get into, but after having worked with Alan [Moulder] and Flood, I loved making guitar music, there’s something so visceral about it, and it turned out I wasn’t too bad at it! But I don’t really know what I’m known for, that's a question for someone else.”
From your perspective, is the industry doing enough to shine a light on creatives behind the scenes? And if not, where are we falling short in your opinion?
“We’re definitely seeing a shift. People behind the scenes are being highlighted a bit more, but there’s always more that can be done. Awards like this and others which specifically highlight those behind the scenes, grafting in the studio, those are lovely celebrations of the personnel making the records that we love, but it’s also about the women at the record labels, the marketing managers, all these people contributing to the success of a record. But I’d love to see that support go more mainstream – I don’t quite know how yet, but it would be good to see!”
Looking ahead, can you share any details of what you're working on next?
“There’s a lot of projects coming up in the next eight months which I'm really excited about, but I’m always excited for the little breaks in between – I’d like to go back to Australia at some point, and to have some time to switch off my phone!”
And finally, what does 'success' mean to you?
“True success to me is enjoying every day that you do and honestly, I feel like I’m living that at the moment. It’s something that you have to make a conscious decision to do, and then figure out ways to do it, to do the thing that gets you excited to get up in the morning.”
